*在本篇采访中，M指代阿根廷MUBI团队，A指代王小帅导演。
*Please note that in this interview, M stands for MUBI Argentina and A stands for the director, Wang Xiaoshuai.
M: What was the genesis of this film? What where the ideas and thoughts that brought the story together?
M: 这个电影的起源是什么？当初构建这个故事的时候有什么样的想法？
A: 2015年，有一天我在一则中国的新闻里听到一个消息，是一个关于停止一对夫妻只生一个孩子的计划生育政策，开始鼓励夫妻多生一个孩子。这个消息让我震惊。之前毫无征兆。意味着在中国执行了几十年的国策就这么结束了。而且是这么轻描淡写的方式，我意识到经历理了这个特殊政策的几代人成为了一个特殊的群体。他们的一生是被特殊制定的。人生是不可逆转的。我想我要为这一特殊的人生拍摄一部电影。他们老去的一生再也没有办法因为政策的改变而重新来过了。这是不公平的。
A: In 2015, I heard a Chinese news saying abandoning the one-child policy that allowed a couple only have one child, instead, China started to encourage one couple having multiple children. That news came without any signs and shocked me. It meant that the national policy which had been implemented for decades came to its end in a such understating way. I realized that generations who had experienced this special policy became a special community, their life were specially formulated. No life can be reversed. I think I would like to shoot a film for these particular lives, their aging days cannot start over again because of the changing of policies. This is unfair.
M: How was the writing process? I’m very interested in particular in the complex temporal structure of the film. When was that decided and why did you choose that structure instead of a lineal one.
M: 整个写作过程如何呢？我尤其对电影中的时间结构很感兴趣。是什么时候决定这样做的呢？为什么会选择用这样的结构，而不是线性叙事呢？
A: 我有一个编剧的合作者。她是一个成熟的女性，同样也是这几十年的中国历史的亲历者。我让她根据我的想法写出一个故事，而也要跨越从八十年代到当下。她先搭建了这个故事，但是最后因为时间跨度和容量太大，实际操作很困难。然后我就接手重新结构内容，使得一切变得可操作，又可以保留这个时间跨度。采用非线性讲述也是因为要保留整个事件的跨度里的几个重要时间点。就如同我们在回忆着过去的事情。我们往往不会以事件的顺序来讲，总是从一个最重要的事件点开始，然后再前前后后的补充，最后形成一个总体的概念。我就是以这样的思维模式去结构剧本的，而且这样也会更自由。
A: I have a co-writer that I worked with, she’s a really mature woman, who has also witnessed Chinese history for decades long. I asked her to write a story based on my thoughts, which needed to across the time from the 80s to present. She constructed this story first, but the huge time span made the production really difficult. So I took over and re-constructed the story, to made it practical meantime kept its time span. Using a non-lineal structure was also for keeping a few important timing throughout the whole event. It is like us memorizing the past, we don’t recall memories in order, but always start from the most valuable moment, then replenish the details, form an overall concept in the end. I constructed the script under such mindset, which also has more freedom.
M: There’s a very strong tradition of social melodrama in Chinese cinema since the 30s. How would you describe your film in terms of the history of Chinese cinema in general and regarding the 6th Generation of filmmakers in particular?
M: 自30年代开始，中国电影中就一直有很强的社会情景剧传统。从整个中国电影历史的角度来说，尤其是作为第六代导演，您会如何描述您的电影呢？
A:是的。中国电影是有这个传统。这也为我们留下了许多中国人的生活、经历的痕迹。我想，这也是我希望做到的。中国人经历的太多太复杂了，尤其是1949年之后。作为我这个年纪的人，也经历了从文革到现在的非常剧烈的变化。电影除了作为一个娱乐的工业化的艺术手段，同时也应该是一个有导演表达的，并且能够记录下这些历史、现实、社会、生活变化的艺术手段。
A: Yes, Chinese film industry do have such tradition. This also enable us to capture a lot moments of Chinese’s life as well as living experiences. I think this is also what I wish I can do. Chinese have gone through so much that was too complicated, especially after 1949. People at my age have also undergone the rapid changes since the Cultural Revolution. Films should not be only adapted as an industrialized art form for the entertainment purpose, but also as auteur’s way to record these histories, realities, societies, changes of live.
M: Was it difficult to balance the personal and the collective/political in the story?
M: 在故事中平衡个人以及国家/政治因素难吗？
A:除了特有的中国式电影审查，于我来说，不难。因为我们每天都生活在社会的变迁中，而且你只要认真地对待我们的社会现实，你就会找到表达的方式。
A: Despite the particular Chinese censorship, it was not difficult for me. Since we are living in a society which changes everyday, as long as you treat the social reality sincerely, you will find a way for expression.
M: Was the editing difficult or you came to the editing room with the film very much structured?
M: 整个剪辑的过程困难吗？还是说您到了剪辑室的时候电影已经被剪辑的很有结构性了？
A：我前面说了剧本的创作过程，这在剧本阶段已经精心做好了。剪辑的时候我和剪辑师试图再尝试一下剧本之外的方式，但不起作用，最后我们重新又回到我的剧本结构里来。
A: As I mentioned the creation of the script before, the structure of the story was set elaborately. During the editing, the editor and I tried new ways apart from the script, but unfortunately they didn’t work, so we had to go back to my script structure.
M: Can you tell a bit about the casting? What did you need from your actors?
M: 您能多说说关于选角吗？您需要从演员们身上得到/找到什么呢？或者您需要他们做什么呢？
A: 我找到的演员其实都是很优秀的，有的是认识很久的朋友，有的是合作过的，而且他们的年龄也是同样经历过这几十年的变迁的。所以我们合作起来很顺畅。我不太需要他们去特殊地表现，我只需要他们和我共同地回忆和体味我们各自的生活经历就行了。因为我们都在这个现实里，很容易有很多共同的情感体验。就像电影主角说的：“我不是在演，我只是生活的搬运工”。
A: Actors that I found were all splendid. I have known some of them for a long time, some are the ones that I have worked with before, more importantly, their ages allow them to also experience decades-change in this society. Hence our cooperation was unhindered. I didn’t really need them to act specially, but only to recall memories and our own life experiences together with me. Because we are all existing in the same reality, it was easy for us to have lots mutual emotional experiences. Like the film protagonist says: ‘I am not performing, but just a porter of life’.
M: And what about the music? There’s a mix of Chinese and international songs that I’m pretty sure resonate strongly in the Chinese audience, specially from your generation.
M: 音乐呢？ 电影中有中国传统音乐和国际性很强的音乐的混合，我相信中国观众们、尤其是对您这代观众来说，对此肯定有很强的反响。
A: 我们的主题音乐是由世界各国人都熟悉的《友谊地久天长》而来。这首苏格兰民歌在中国，即便是在特殊时期，人们也会偶尔听到和唱到。因为它的歌词翻译成中文是关于友谊的，关于永恒的。这首歌的政治性不强，所以他一直被流传。在中国也是家喻户晓。因此有很强的共情性。而我们的作曲也很优秀。她从这首歌里的主要旋律里借出了一点，同时又创作了属于自己的旋律。
A: Our theme music derives from “Auld Lang Syne” that is known very well by people all over the world. In China, even during the special time, people would listen to and sing this Scotland folk song. It’s lyric is about friendship, about eternity. The song has little political edge, so it could be circulated for a long time. It is well-known in China, hence has strong empathy. Our music composer was incredible, she was inspired by the melody of “Auld Lang Syne”, then created the melody of her own.
M: The film is, specially during the second half, very much about guilt. How would you describe guilt in more general, social terms, regarding Chinese recent past (cultural revolution, one child policy, etc)
M: 这个电影，尤其是第二部分，是关于“愧疚”。从更广的角度及社会层面来说，参考中国近期的社会情况（文化大革命，独生子政策等等），您会如何描述这种“愧疚”呢。
A：是的。“愧疚”。我是从个人的角度去审视人和社会，人和政治的关系。大部分时候社会、政治的压力会让许多个人去做一些他不想或无法逃避的事情。这在汉娜.伦特的《关于极权的起源》里对平庸的恶的描述是一致的。我认为在中国的近代发展历程中，有太多的人会经历和面对这个，就是自己做了违心的事，不管是主动的有意的，还是迫不得已，内心的“愧疚”感总会有的。当然，不见得每个人都有，但我笔下面对的却不是恶魔，都是普普通通的人，探讨他们的内心，同时来反思社会我认为是有意义的。
A: Yes, guilt indeed. I examine the relationship between human and society, between human and politics from personal perspective. Most of the time, the pressure from society and politics would make individuals to do something violate his/her nature that he/she cannot escape. It is the same as the description of the banality of evil in “The Origins of Totarianism” written by Hannah Arendt. In my opinions, in the development of China in the recent past, there are so many people facing this problem of doing something against their wills, either intentionally or unintentionally, or even forced, there is always ‘guilt’ inside their hearts. Of course not everyone has it, but people that I write are not evils, but all ordinary humans. I believe that to review the society through examining their hearts is meaningful.
M: Considering the very fast changes in your country, was it difficult to find/build the places that the audience can see in the scenes that take place during the 80s?
M: 考虑到您国家内的发展非常快，对于寻找/建造观众们能在屏幕上看到80年代光景的地方，难吗？
A：非常困难。我们现在的高速发展往往是由摧毁历史和传统为代价的。我为此非常担忧。体现在社会中就是可能一转眼，你熟悉的生活环境和外在建筑就消失了。这也是我这些年抓紧去拍摄的原因，否则会越来越困难。
A: Extremely difficult. The rapid development is always at the cost of destroying history and traditions. I am really worried about this. It is embodied in the society as in one blink, the living environment that you are familiar with or the buildings would disappear. This is also the reason why I am hurry to shoot these years, otherwise it will become more and more difficult.
M: Did you suffer any censorship problems with the film? I visited the Pingyao Film Festival two years ago and talked a lot with colleagues about the “special censorship” for film festivals and the more broad public screenings in China. I’m really interested in that subject.
M: 对于这部电影的审查方面您有过任何困难吗？两年前我去了平遥电影节，和很多同僚们聊过关于电影节的“特殊审查”以及在中国更广泛的屏幕放映地问题。我对于这个话题很感兴趣。
A：我几乎每部电影都面临这个问题。这也是中国电影人经常说到的问题。我们这 二十多年来为此争取过太多了。包括呼吁把“审查”改成“分级”制，但成效不大。电影工业化的发展，很多人更关注娱乐性和市场行了，似乎谈论的少了，但是许多方面我认为是绕不过去的。因为一个电影作者，他的真正的创作就无从谈起。所以在目前的现实情况下，有冲动的创作者就会为自己的创作争取最大的自由，但这首先你要敢于面对它，然后去做。
A：Almost every film of mine face this problem. This is also the issue that Chinese filmmakers always talk about, We have fought for this too much during the last 20 years, including calling on changing the “cencorship” to “classification and rating system”, which haven’t succeeded. The rapid development of film industry shifts most focus to the entertaining and market value of the cinema, and the discussion on censorship becomes less, which in my opinion is fundamental. For an auteur director, his/her real creation had no where to conduct. So under such circumstance, the impulsive filmmakers would fight for the freedom for themselves.
